The Healthy Back Institute Forum

The Healthy Back Institute Forum » Recent Topics http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ The Web's Best Back Pain Forum en-US Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:27:27 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/search.php Jody on "Crushed Pelvic bones" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/crushed-pelvic-bones#post-65479 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 04:49:37 +0000 Jody 65479@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ Here's my problem, PAIN. I was in a car accident in 1981 where I crushed my pelvic bones, it left my left side about an inch shorter than the right. So I go thru all these years basically pain free. I guess my knees took the brunt of it, I just had knee replacement surgery done on both knees last year. Not even a month after the last surgery, I started experiencing a lot of pain. It is on my inner thighs, my butt feels like someone just kicked me, some lower back. It kinda sounds like Sciatica. I see my Doctor next week, I'd like to ask for a MRI and also back to physical therapy to learn some correct exercises to do. Any suggestions? steve on "How to Cure an Ear Infection?" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/how-to-cure-an-ear-infection#post-65401 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 11:17:09 +0000 steve 65401@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ They always ask at the doctor's reception why you are there, and you have to answer in front of others what's wrong and sometimes it is embarrassing. There's nothing worse than a Doctor's Receptionist who insists you tell her what is wrong with you, in a room full of other patients. I know most of us have experienced this, and I love the way this old guy handled it. A 75-year-old man walked into a crowded waiting room and approached the desk. The Receptionist said, 'Yes sir, what are you seeing the Doctor for today?' 'There's something wrong with my dick', he replied. The receptionist became irritated and said, 'You shouldn't come into a crowded waiting room and say things like that.. ' 'Why not, you asked me what was wrong and I told you,' he said... The Receptionist replied; 'Now you've caused some embarrassment in this room full of people. You should have said there is something wrong with your ear or something and discussed the problem further with the Doctor in private.' The man replied, 'You shouldn't ask people questions in a roomful of strangers if the answer could embarrass anyone. The man walked out, waited several minutes, and then re-entered. The Receptionist smiled smugly and asked, 'Yes??' 'There's something wrong with my ear,' he stated. The Receptionist nodded approvingly and smiled, knowing he had taken her advice. 'And what is wrong with your ear, Sir?' 'I can't piss out of it,' he replied. Sally on "Muscle imbalances" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/muscle-imbalances#post-65162 Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:05:05 +0000 Sally 65162@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ I have been suffering with horrible nerve pain in my right foot for about two years. I was seeing a foot doctor (podiatrist) monthly and he tried custom orthotics, medication, a brace, one shot (but I think he put it in the wrong location). Then I went to a back dr who gave me four shots in my spine, piriformis muscle, facet joint because my mri showed spinal stenosis. I do sometimes get sciatica but none of these shots helped the foot. So now I have an appt with a foot surgeon because I think I have mortons neuroma. I also have severe arthritis pain in my right foot and my neck and I have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia which I'm not sure I really have. Anyway, I was looking in the mirror today and I noticed on the right side of my neck if I held up my hand, from my chin to my shoulder was about 6 inches and only about 3 inches on the left side. What does this mean? Because I am crooked could this be causing all my pain on the right side. Would muscle imbalance exercises straighten me out. Should I see a chiropractor? Greg Cowart on "Is Foraminotomy right for me?" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/is-foraminotomy-right-for-me#post-64827 Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:36:01 +0000 Greg Cowart 64827@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ I found a small site that explains a few back procedures but I am not sure which one will have the lowest impact on my L5-S1 bulging degenerated disc. Decompression did not really work so I am looking for other solutions. Could a Foraminotomy procedure be less obtrusive than going in and shaving my disc down like my doctor wants to do? My doctor wants to shave about 20% of my disc down. It looks like I might be a good candidate for this type of procedure but I need more information about it and what the recovery is like. Do you have any suggestions of where to learn more? Greg Przemek on "Right hip is higher than left" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/right-hip-is-higher-than-left#post-63601 Mon, 16 Jan 2012 02:37:55 +0000 Przemek 63601@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ I have very tight lower back muscles and they seem to have pulled my pelvis causing my left leg to be longer than the right. And my right hip to be higher than the left. I enjoy weightlifting, especially barbell squats. But after squats the IT Band on my left leg gets really sore. I have switched to single leg training and did reverse lunges for two weeks but to no avail as the IT Band on my left legs still hurts. The tight back and tilted pelvis is causing other problems such as cracking knees and neck. For about three weeks now i've been seeing a chiropractor but there has been no improvement, probably because he isn't focusing on the tightness in my lower back yet. What can i do to help my situation and get back to doing what i love? HealthyBack on "Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/please-help-cant-stand-or-sit-pain-is-so-bad#post-248 Fri, 09 Jul 2010 20:49:43 +0000 HealthyBack 248@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ *PREVIOUS POST* Eric Jun 30, 2008 - 8:16AM Quote Reply Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad Hi Everyone, Iv been reading through the forum all night long to see if i could find an answer. My back went into spasm a few weeks back, and what happens is it pulls me to the left. Im so far over to the left it look like im snapped in half! I have a herniated disc at L5 S1, i had an mri back in march. The pain is so bad i was carried in to hospital and they basically turned me away and told me to go to my docs. This also happened to me 6 months ago, i went to the hospital and the doc there got me to lie face down on a bench, he then draw on my back where things were out, sprayed my back with ice spray and when i took a breath he punched my lower back! It did the trick and within 2 days i was up and about, i asked him to do it again and he refused. So iv gone to the docs and been put on strong tabs then i was before. iv suffered for 10 years now, from 19 to now 29. I used to be into power lifting in a big way and started way back training at 13 years old, and got into power lifting at 16, so been on meds for a long while. Im on a concoction of drugs from the doc which leave me sick and constipated, and none of them touch the pain! Iv was carried into a chiropractor last Wednesday and had 3 sessions but no joy as of yet. The only way iv found to stop the pain in to lie over a exercise ball so it releases to pressure. That why i can write this now as it was not possible to sit hear before. I have purchased to online version of LTBP but im in far to much pain to start. Iv got no feeling in my left leg and foot apart from the sciatica and the pain in my left glute which is unbearable! any ideas guys, sorry it a bit long winded ______________________________________________________________________________________ Eric Jun 30, 2008 - 8:26AM Quote Reply Re: Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad I thought i would add that iv been using an inversion table which iv had for 3 years and its great for releasing the pain, but as soon as i come back up the pain just collapse me to the floor! I had been having real trouble urinating and was about to be taken in to hospital as i couldn't go for 3 days, but at the last minuet managed to go, thank God!! cheers guys ______________________________________________________________________________________ Dave Hutchieson Jun 30, 2008 - 12:40PM Quote Reply Re: Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad Eric I'm going to send you a mail with contact information of someone who may be able to help. Dave Hutchieson ______________________________________________________________________________________ Steven Hefferon Jun 30, 2008 - 6:02PM Quote Reply Re: Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad I will email you direct too... Steve LTBP ______________________________________________________________________________________ Adam Jul 3, 2008 - 12:05PM Quote Reply Re: Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad You probably need discectomy or spinal decompression to relieve the pressure that is being put on the nerve. Go to a neurosurgeon! Nerve pain can be permanent if the nerve doesn't get decompressed. Doctor Derr ______________________________________________________________________________________ Jenny Jul 19, 2008 - 12:55AM Quote Reply Re: Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad I know how you feel. I had the same thing, couldn't sit, stand or walk longer than 5 mins due to the terrible cramping pains and was virtually a prisoner in my own home for weeks til I got in to see the surgeon. The MRI (with contrast) showed a cyst growing at L4/5 and impinging on a bunch of nerve roots. I had a spinal fusion of L4/5 8 weeks ago - what a blessed relief. That awful pain is gone, still a bit sore because the nerves were damaged but that will go in time Good luck - have an MRI with contrast as it will show things more clearly. ______________________________________________________________________________________ Dave Hutchieson Jul 19, 2008 - 12:38PM Quote Reply Re: Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad Eric Did you get the e-mail I sent ? Dave Hutchieson ______________________________________________________________________________________ brian Aug 1, 2008 - 11:34AM Quote Reply Re: Please help cant stand or sit pain is so bad I think chiropractic can help you, but at this point in time if your back is in spasm the chiropractor probably wont be able to do an adjustment. Have you tried some infrared heat? HealthyBack on "Leg tightness shifts from left to right" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/leg-tightness-shifts-from-left-to-right#post-14 Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:53:23 +0000 HealthyBack 14@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ *PREVIOUS POST* Author Paul Feb 4, 2010 - 12:43PM Quote Reply Leg tightness shifts from left to right Pain Shifts.. Hello everyone. I had been on here for years and finally had surgery (not for back) for my torn rectus abdominis and torn adductors clean off the bone. Anyways, immediately after surgery my right sided back pain was completely gone and continues to be gone. However, this injury went undiagnosed for 4.5 years before i found one of only a handful of specialists in the world. Needless to say my body contorted itself to protect the right side of my body. During the last year before my surgery i would get left sided back pain and tight hamstring..but would shift. Fast forward to now. Immediately after surgery at 6 week mark I tore the left sided MCL and meniscus....while walking and rehabbing....hmmm....coincidence or imbalanced? I was at therapy and he put me on 2 scales and one side of my body was carrying 25 pounds more than the other. Since the surgery: RA - healed Adductors - healed right sided back - healed plantar fasciatis - healed MCL tear - healed What i am left with is this extremely tight quads left low back tightness through the QL tremendously tight left psoas...which causes 4" space between left low back and wall left biceps femoris...tight and burning * this leg burn shifts to my right also and right psoas also... When i pull my knees to my chest and leave opposite leg dangling off bench it opens me up a little...but when i life left leg up i feel a pop in my back....I have never been told it is SI joint but i wonder sometimes....Anyways, is this just my body needing more stability in the area? I am basically starting over because all the underlying areas of injury are finally healed. Now i can concentrate on my back. I have dropped 40+ pounds since surgery. I was 276 and now am 232.My anterior tilt is still there but not as severe. I have been told that my tight quads will pull my pelvis down in the front and also make my hammies tight? Any thoughts? ________________________________________________________________________________________ WTP Feb 4, 2010 - 6:42PM Quote Reply Re: Leg tightness shifts from left to right Hi Paul It's anyone's guess really, you've been through so much and seen so many different top guys, the main thing is that those tears are healed up, that scales test sounds interesting, which side was heavier Can you tell if one quad has lost any muscle by feeling with your fingers, I know with me my right quad feels tight, but it isn't, my right rectus femoris feels flat, empty or missing compared to the left Have you seen anyone about abdominal wall dysfunction, I' haven't, but a lot of tightness can come from this ________________________________________________________________________________________ Paul Feb 4, 2010 - 7:31PM Quote Reply Re: Leg tightness shifts from left to right Paul- The unfortunate thing is since this was not a main symptom before it was never noticed. Now it is my last symptom. I believe my left leg was the heavier one. They are both balanced now. Also today was the first time my pelvis was level at therapy. I think it just means i need more stability in the core. I tend to do 2-3 hours of cardio a day and my core is just getting strong in the last 2 weeks. Prior to that my Rectus Abdominis would spasm from weakness... I am close....I hope. Paul...I have massive quads and they are both equally large but the left one is riddled with more Trigger Points. i believe this is from my torn MCL that i excercised through. I get them on my Vastis Medialis and it makes my knee hurt. Hope you are still doing great. ________________________________________________________________________________________ WTP Feb 5, 2010 - 5:31PM Quote Reply Re: Leg tightness shifts from left to right Paul- Maybe now the tears have healed more fascia work would hold, who knows, what happened with the MAT stuff, did you see Greg Roskopf, I'm unsure with my rectus abdominis, I believe it could be over active as to transversus abdominis as my stomach " domes " easy when going though tests from Christopher Norris back stabilitly book, Great stuff anyway just lately, do you think some could be TMS as you had that in the 80's, probably not though as this a reaction to the tears Paul ________________________________________________________________________________________ Paul Feb 5, 2010 - 6:37PM Quote Reply Re: Leg tightness shifts from left to right Paul- You make several great points. - I am sure my fascia could use more work but i do fascia stretches - I believe I have some TMS. I sometimes worry alot, which i never did before. Also my symptoms bounce which is a TMS symptom - All my tears are healed and my surgery was 100% success. I am just stuck with opposite side pain now. What i was told is that i was walking around for 4.5 years with a right side that was torn and the left side is just exhausted/shortened. I also was heavy and now losing weight. Alot of my muscles get exhausted easy....especially psoas and gluteus minimus. Thanks for the reply. I will look up that test. I test pretty well in strength and flexibility. ________________________________________________________________________________________ Paul Feb 5, 2010 - 6:38PM Quote Reply Re: Leg tightness shifts from left to right Sorry. I did the MAT stuff but it is expensive. It helped me find out that 8 left sided muscles were so fatigued they were causing the next muscle in succession to jump in. It worked well for that. I think it is a therapy that would work well if you are almost there. I liked it....just could not afford $120 a week on top of massage. tim on "how do i get pain relief or management" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/how-do-i-get-pain-relief-or-management#post-61123 Tue, 03 Jan 2012 00:29:07 +0000 tim 61123@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ my dr quit a year ago and i was left without any dr or pain medication for 5 herniated discs artheitis that has eaten all cartledge from my left wrist causeing me to have a fusion of left wrist now the rest of my joints are all in pain 24/7 and i have a new primary dr who scribed the fentanyl pain patch but nothing else now im on the fentanyl patch for many years and with no managment of my pain it;s again out of hand my urine tested positive for marjiwana and iwas booted from the care of my former family nurse practioner who knew what pain is for me to deal with i am now on couch sweating the withdrawls as my patch dose has been lowered in an attempt to get me off all narcotics when i need them the most my primary dr told me they were refering me to a pain clinic and told me they would call with appt. that was a year ago should i still wait for the call or find another dr to do somthing for me as far as chronic pain goes i have found help i know it's out there but one bad apple in form of a rotten nurse will set aside any relief any of you feel you have gotton to know they just walk away and write me off whats next a slow and painfull death at my own hand for simple relief im 53 and can not take much more of this run around i have been disabled since 1990 when a failed fusion left me cripple i NEED HELP and sooner the better tim HealthyBack on "Inversion Therapy and Prolotherapy" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/inversion-therapy-and-prolotherapy#post-151 Fri, 02 Jul 2010 16:23:14 +0000 HealthyBack 151@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ *PREVIOUS POST* yannick Apr 10, 2009 - 8:52PM Quote Reply What happens when i finish my inversion therapy I have seen many forums and articles on inversion therapy, saying that has soon has you get off the table your lower back and disc start compressing again. And that the inversion table can be used has a band aid of some type to remove the pain for a short period of time. Now i am really serious about my back pain rehab, i have had up to date 12 prolotherapy treatments and am amazed of how well its going, i have an MRI showing L4L5 and L5S1 discopathy with light loss of signal but no degeneration and no hernia or bulge. My medical doctor says that at 36 i am to young to have this and its possible to rehydrate the discs. I have since been on a serious glucosamine, MSM, chronotitide, EFA complex and collagen complex, drinking a lot of water, doing core training, eating a very good diet, and doing inversion therapy 20 minutes per day, now i do it after weight training too, and using an infra red sauna. I have seen a study of a 56 year old man and glucosamine intake for 2 years with great result on disc rehydration. I have also done 12 treatments of pulse signal therapy and 9 spineforce treatment. I plan to get a second MRI next year. But i would really love to know if inversion therapy has any benefits to rehydrate the disc and to keep them healty. Since i quit the chiro i have had no lower back spasm that has been a year now. ______________________________________________________________________________________ Jesse Cannone Apr 10, 2009 - 10:20PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Thanks for sharing your story. The way to optimize the effects of inversion is to combine it with Muscle Balance Therapy, which we teach in our LTBP system. You should perform various stretches (specific to your body and imbalances) right before and right after inversion to allow for the most decompression during and to maintain as much after you complete your session... Some of these stretches would likely include lower back, lats, abdomen, QL and again others that are more specific to you. Hope this helps :) Jesse ______________________________________________________________________________________ yannick Apr 11, 2009 - 12:02AM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Sorry Jesse but i already have the LBP program and it did not work for me. When you have lax ligaments the only thing that will work is prolotherapy. I did LBP for 6 months without any improvement, after all the ligaments and tendons are very important in the body because they hold everything together, some dumb sport medecine told me that they are useless and training the muscles around the ligaments and tendons will take there place, wonder where that idiot got is diplomat. So basically that doesn't answer my question. Quit sad if you look at it this way to say i payed 100$ for this and it did nothing. ______________________________________________________________________________________ awaq Apr 11, 2009 - 4:31PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy No bulging or herniation or other disc damage at 36? That is great! I have read many people's L5 is degenerated by 20! To analyze your questions: Your back rehydrates when you sleep. So what is the difference between lying down and decompression? Which ligaments got strained? How did this happen? Have you ever heard the term "myoelectric quiescence" of muscles? It's interesting how Rene Cailliet in 1981 was against engaging the back extensors when lifting an object. He considered it faulty lifting to maintain the natural ach in the lower back: "the lordosis is regained before the pelvis is derotated. Thus there is all the stress of hyperextension as in the static lordotic posture plus the extra extensor muscle contraction to maintain this cantilevered position." He preferred lumbar-pelvic rhythm: "Normally, the lumbar spine is supported by the supraspinous ligaments when in full flexion to extension until that last 45 degrees. The reextension to full erect posture is done by pelvic derotation. For the last 45 degrees of extension, the erector spinae muscles straighten the spine and regain the lordosis". Have you even seen an Olympic weightlifter lift like this? Do you know what would happen if you did not engage the muscles but relied solely on the passive tissues as Cailliet suggests? Cailliet disagrees with Yuri Spinov etc: "In faulty reextension in which the lordosis is regained prematurely with the upper body ahead of the center of gravity, this inefficient erector spinae muscle acting upon the lumbar spine is made to support the body and perform further extension. THIS RESULTS IN PAINFUL MUSCULAR CONTRACTION." So he thought engaging the muscles caused pain and the solution was to reply solely on the passive tissue (ligaments). This was done by fully flexing the spine when performing a lift. In other words: "myoelectric quiescence" of muscles ______________________________________________________________________________________ yannick Apr 11, 2009 - 7:41PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Thanks awaq on another back pain forum i have read that they performed a study a while back they took a certain amount of people with no pain at all, back pain and gave them MRI, they where surprised to find that 80% of them had hernia either L4L5 or L5S1 yet they continued active lives? I did not know that most people have compete degenerated L5 in there 20, what i have been told is that its not normal for a 36 year old person to have dehydration in the disc, that this usually happens at the age of 50 plus years old. My MRI is not so bad i plan to get another one soon to see if all i have been doing did some positive. I still have some prolo treatments left and trigger point injection has well. I decided to stop squatting and deadlifting i just dont like the feeling it gives me in the lower back when i am finish with the lift and it also puts pressure on my neck which i dont like. I just bought myself a BOSU ball for core training so far its been quit amazing, i feel this reflects a lot what the spine force machine does, and i also bought my hack squat, leg press machine. ______________________________________________________________________________________ Jeff Apr 11, 2009 - 9:18PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy If your getting Prolotherapy treatments and doing full inversion you would be defeating the purpose of prolotherapy which as you know is to over time strengthen/tighten the Ligament and or tendons......My Prolotherapist suggested 3/4 Inversion at the most, but to wait at least 1-2 weeks after injections to do so when I was getting Injections in my sacrum area. When I got my shoulder done I made the mistake of overstretching too soon and the prolotherapy wasnt working.....once I started to lay off the stretching it worked like magic......From what I read it could take up to a year before the actual Ligament/Tendon regains full strength.....When I get Prolotherapy I dont do anything for the first 3 days...then I start in with some light exercise for the invloved area and maybe some very very light stretching and just keep increasing the exercise as my body lets me....Usually by the 3rd week Im increasing any strength work at a good pace.....but if your need another serious of injections again you start all over..............I found what worked best for my shoulders were a serious of 3 sessions about 3 weeks apart..........after that I felt my shoulder back at full strength after about 6-8 weeks....during that 6-8 weeks was some serious strengthening exercises with the Therabands and dumbbells every other day......My injury was a separated shoulder which the whole year before I did PT stuff that never helped...So right there shows Prolotherapy does work in certain cases....Very hard with the back since its such a complex area......the shoulder was simple since the Doc knew exactly what ligaments were the problem....Nothings easy thats for sure. ______________________________________________________________________________________ awaq Apr 12, 2009 - 12:28PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Yannick, I would say the difference between lying down and inversion is the muscle relaxation. Muscle guarding to protect the discs never lets the discs imbibe their nutritive fluid and stay healthy. Even after 8 hours sleeping, you loose 90% of the fluid in 1 hour. So the benefit of inversion IMHO is to get the deep core muscles to relax. Child's Pose is for the back extensors and Cobra is for the abs but on decompression gets the deep muscles right at the spine. Once you get these muscles to relax the disc can rehydrate. As Jeff said, pulling hard on the back will only stretch the ligaments and is self-defeating. Just hard enough to get the muscles to let go and you are 90% of the way there. Walking is also great for disc health as the switching from leg to leg "pumps" the discs allowing fluid to go in and out. Fluid transfer from pressure differential is how the discs get their nourishment. My point about the ligaments is they only get loose when there is no muscle activity. Then all the stress goes to the ligament and it gets stretched. This can happen when you round the back at L5 - as you noticed-. The back extensors shut off and the ligaments are taking all the stress. They stretch as you found. So your ligament laxity IMHO is either: 1) from the back getting out of alignment so the muscles aren't activating and all the stress is going into the ligaments.. 2) Muscle imbalance so the back is shifting from a straight position. ______________________________________________________________________________________ awaq Apr 12, 2009 - 12:33PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Yannick no reason to take glucosamin pills. "taking either product every day as a supplement is really missing the big picture by not answering the question, "why are you not making it in the first place?" If you are healthy, your body makes all that stuff, in great quantities, on it own. Read this: http://www.drgangemi.com/articles/break_injury_cycle When it comes to repairing an injury, or making sure an injury doesn't surprise you tomorrow, the most important chemical process pertinent is that of sulfation. Once you hear that word, and you've understood the part about glucose, you may be starting to put these two together by thinking of the supplements "glucosamine sulfate and chondroitin sulfate". Chondroitin sulfate is the substance made naturally in your body when dealing with the production of cartilage. Glucosamine is an intermediate step along this production pathway, whose main goal is to make chondroitin sulfate. If this step is blocked along the way at any point, then the chondroitin sulfate won't be made and you won't be making any heads turn with your suboptimal performance. The point here is not to supplement with either of these products. It is to figure out how to make it on your own, every day, naturally. Supplementing with either glucosamine or chondroitin is usually a good idea following an injury, but taking some every day will not prevent most injuries. Additionally, taking either product every day as a supplement is really missing the big picture by not answering the question, "why are you not making it in the first place?" ______________________________________________________________________________________ yannick Apr 12, 2009 - 8:06PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Quote: Originally Posted by Jeff If your getting Prolotherapy treatments and doing full inversion you would be defeating the purpose of prolotherapy which as you know is to over time strengthen/tighten the Ligament and or tendons......My Prolotherapist suggested 3/4 Inversion at the most, but to wait at least 1-2 weeks after injections to do so when I was getting Injections in my sacrum area. When I got my shoulder done I made the mistake of overstretching too soon and the prolotherapy wasnt working.....once I started to lay off the stretching it worked like magic......From what I read it could take up to a year before the actual Ligament/Tendon regains full strength.....When I get Prolotherapy I dont do anything for the first 3 days...then I start in with some light exercise for the invloved area and maybe some very very light stretching and just keep increasing the exercise as my body lets me....Usually by the 3rd week Im increasing any strength work at a good pace.....but if your need another serious of injections again you start all over..............I found what worked best for my shoulders were a serious of 3 sessions about 3 weeks apart..........after that I felt my shoulder back at full strength after about 6-8 weeks....during that 6-8 weeks was some serious strengthening exercises with the Therabands and dumbbells every other day......My injury was a separated shoulder which the whole year before I did PT stuff that never helped...So right there shows Prolotherapy does work in certain cases....Very hard with the back since its such a complex area......the shoulder was simple since the Doc knew exactly what ligaments were the problem....Nothings easy thats for sure. Glad to see that someone had prolo done on them, yes prolo is amazing, and no i do not do full inversion i do only 60 degree inversion i asked the doctor that gives me prolo and he said it was fine. I know that prolo takes a long time been having it for 6 months now like you every 3 weeks and same has you i cannot do anything for 3 days after the injection since it hurts like hell and my lower and upper back is slowlen, still its the best thing that ever happened to me and i feel that with prolo i have a fighting chance. ______________________________________________________________________________________ yannick Apr 12, 2009 - 8:15PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Quote: Originally Posted by awaq Yannick no reason to take glucosamin pills. "taking either product every day as a supplement is really missing the big picture by not answering the question, "why are you not making it in the first place?" If you are healthy, your body makes all that stuff, in great quantities, on it own. Read this: http://www.drgangemi.com/articles/break_injury_cycle When it comes to repairing an injury, or making sure an injury doesn't surprise you tomorrow, the most important chemical process pertinent is that of sulfation. Once you hear that word, and you've understood the part about glucose, you may be starting to put these two together by thinking of the supplements "glucosamine sulfate and chondroitin sulfate". Chondroitin sulfate is the substance made naturally in your body when dealing with the production of cartilage. Glucosamine is an intermediate step along this production pathway, whose main goal is to make chondroitin sulfate. If this step is blocked along the way at any point, then the chondroitin sulfate won't be made and you won't be making any heads turn with your suboptimal performance. The point here is not to supplement with either of these products. It is to figure out how to make it on your own, every day, naturally. Supplementing with either glucosamine or chondroitin is usually a good idea following an injury, but taking some every day will not prevent most injuries. Additionally, taking either product every day as a supplement is really missing the big picture by not answering the question, "why are you not making it in the first place?" awaq thanks for the replies but for this i rather stay with my medical doctor advise and take glucosamine complexe each day. At some point when you get older i will be 37 in June the body really slows down and i would be very surpised if it made its own glucosamine. Has far has the rehydration i guess i still have a fighting chance because yeah when i got my MRI my lower back muscles where really really tight i was seeing a chiro that was really dumb and each time i saw him it got worst. I was able true exercices like the cobra and child pose has you mentionned and many more yoga exercises and stretches to really remove that spams in the lower back and have been a year without any major back spams. I do walk a lot and have bough myself the BOSU ball which i find amazing. I stopped squatting and deadlifting because they put way to much pressure on my upper back and lower back and i really really really dont want to get hurt again, this weekend i bought a leg press hack squat machine, i tried it and it was really good, my lower back never left the machine and i tried it with 6 plates 3 on each sides so with this i will be able to build good leg muscles without fear of injury. Once again thanks you both Jeff and Awaq for your great replies. ______________________________________________________________________________________ yannick Apr 13, 2009 - 10:07AM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy BTW my pelvic kept getting out of alignement all the time before i got prolotherapy, wasted a year and a half at the stupid chiro theses guys are full of crap. After 3 months of prolo my pelvic stays in place now, i still have some pain but its far better then it was, same thing has with my neck region. Prolo is just amazing and i am bless that i found someone in my area that does it since this technic is virtually unknown. ______________________________________________________________________________________ awaq Apr 13, 2009 - 12:50PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Which ligaments where loose? ______________________________________________________________________________________ yannick Apr 13, 2009 - 5:46PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Quote: Originally Posted by awaq Which ligaments where loose? Sorry Awaq guess i need to provide some feedback on myself. I actually injured myself doing squats and deadlifts 8 years ago, i was doing them with enormous weight and very bad forms, squat was at 405 pounds and deads where at 315 pounds. I guess i was lucky since its the ligament that gave and not the discs of the spine also my neck took a pounding has well from all the weight of the bar doing squats and i was also doing standing militry press, now after 8 years of going to see many chiros who suck and other profession i found my current medical sport doctor. I started prolotherapy on September 17th of 2008 and have had since then 12 treatments, i can lift weights again, i started doing squats and deadlifts again last week but i guess i just cant do them anymore my neck and upper back wont take it anymore. This is my current training i do Vince Gironda 8 X 8 taking 30 seconds between sets and my weights are moderate. DAY 1 Chest Decline low cable crossover (touch hands at waistline) 8 X 8 Bench press to neck 8 X 8 Incline Dumbbell Press (palms facing each other) 8 X 8 Wide Grip V-Bar Dips 8 X 8 Biceps Drag Curl 8 X 8 Preacher curl (top of bench at low pec line) 8 X 8 Incline Dumbbell Curl 8 X 8 Forearms Zottman Curl 8 X 8 Barbell Wrist Curl 8 X 8 DAY 2 Shoulders Dumbbell Side Lateral raise seated 8 X 8 Wide Grip upright row 8 X 8 Front to back barbell shoulder press 8 X 8 Dumbbell bent over rear deltoid lateral 8 X 8 Triceps Kneeling rope extension 8 X 8 Lying Tricep Extension 8 X 8 2 Dumbbell Tricep Kickback 8 X 8 DAY 3 Back Sternum Chin up 8 X 8 High bench two dumbbell rowing 8 X 8 Low cable row with 18" high pulley 8 X 8 Medium Grip Lat Pulldown to Chest 8 X 8 DAY 4 Quads leg press 8 X 8 Hack machine squat 8 X 8 Leg Extension 8 X 8 Hamstrings Seated leg Curl machine 8 X 8 That is a lot of work but man it keeps the fat off can be very cardio if done well and build muscle like crazy too, also its done in 45 minutes so i don't over train and i have a healthy diet that goes with this. So some SI joints are still a bit loose i have a snapping hip joint has well and in the upper back and neck region so i get prolo done in all of theses places, Jeff thank you very much i guess that i have another 6 months of prolo every 3 weeks and i will be 100%. ______________________________________________________________________________________ yannick Apr 13, 2009 - 7:32PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Jeff once again thanks for the feedback on prolo i know now that i have to be patient and that it will take a full year for me and even more to get 100%, my sport doctor usually gives me a bit more irritant depending on the sessions, usually dextrose and xylocaine with some zeel anywhere from 4cc to 6cc. Last time i saw him 2 weeks ago i didnt say nothing about my weight training, i need to ask him next time, also about the inversion table, i do not do a full inversion, i always invert at 60 degrees, last time he told me it was fine? You made some good point and i feel i need to tell him about inversion and weight training. Thanks again Jeff ______________________________________________________________________________________ awaq Apr 13, 2009 - 7:53PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Yannick, that is a good workout. Cardio will build the ligaments. I have the same problem as you. A few years back hack squats with 3 wheels was great but squats and deads were too much. I don't have access to prolo but I hope that by holding good posture and strengthening the muscles (which weren't engaging to protect L5 - not "the lower back" - but L5) the ligaments will tighten back up. For me, my thread on neutral pelvis here was a revelation. It is VERY tricky because what looks like a forward tipped pelvis can be lack of mobility at L5 so L3, L2,L1 arch and that gives the impression of forward tipped pelvis. I have been curling my back over a 6" foam roller right at the top of my hips (ilia c crest) rolling front and back just 1-2" to work L5 loose. My foot numbness went away in a week. Just like textbook McKenzie, my thigh got really numb and that went away a few days later. So the numbness is centralizing to my lower back. Have you tried 1/2 superman's just by lifting your torso and locking in at L5 to strengthen the muscles? As you get older, when you arch up, these posterior ligaments can buckle on extension, narrowing the spinal canal. When you are younger, they contract and thicken. I'm hoping supermans can help the ligaments not to buckle. Just use a pillow under your abs or engage the glutes so you don't over-arch. Have you tried sumo deadlifts? By standing with the feet apart and pointing out, hold the weight between your legs. Even lifting the barbell up between your legs. Good alternative to hack squats. From what I have read, snapping hip syndrome can be caused by the IT band or gluteus maximus tendon snapping over the greater trochanter when moving into extension. Or the snapping of the iliopsoas tendon over the minor trochanter or hip joint capsule. The fix usually involves stretching. ______________________________________________________________________________________ yannick Apr 13, 2009 - 11:21PM Quote Reply Re: What happens when i finish my inversion therapy Quote: Originally Posted by awaq Yannick, that is a good workout. Cardio will build the ligaments. I have the same problem as you. A few years back hack squats with 3 wheels was great but squats and deads were too much. I don't have access to prolo but I hope that by holding good posture and strengthening the muscles (which weren't engaging to protect L5 - not "the lower back" - but L5) the ligaments will tighten back up. For me, my thread on neutral pelvis here was a revelation. It is VERY tricky because what looks like a forward tipped pelvis can be lack of mobility at L5 so L3, L2,L1 arch and that gives the impression of forward tipped pelvis. I have been curling my back over a 6" foam roller right at the top of my hips (ilia c crest) rolling front and back just 1-2" to work L5 loose. My foot numbness went away in a week. Just like textbook McKenzie, my thigh got really numb and that went away a few days later. So the numbness is centralizing to my lower back. Have you tried 1/2 superman's just by lifting your torso and locking in at L5 to strengthen the muscles? As you get older, when you arch up, these posterior ligaments can buckle on extension, narrowing the spinal canal. When you are younger, they contract and thicken. I'm hoping supermans can help the ligaments not to buckle. Just use a pillow under your abs or engage the glutes so you don't over-arch. Have you tried sumo deadlifts? By standing with the feet apart and pointing out, hold the weight between your legs. Even lifting the barbell up between your legs. Good alternative to hack squats. From what I have read, snapping hip syndrome can be caused by the IT band or gluteus maximus tendon snapping over the greater trochanter when moving into extension. Or the snapping of the iliopsoas tendon over the minor trochanter or hip joint capsule. The fix usually involves stretching. Thanks for reply awaq, yes i did try many different ways of deadlifting sumo, with dumbells, thighten up my buttock and my legs to remove the pressure off my lower back but Helas nothing really works, i am still scared of this lifts and scared that after so much prolo my ligament will give up once more. I did lots and lots of research before finding a prolotherapist, i was very lucky because where i live there is nothing. You should really try to find prolo even if its a bit far from your place. In sport medicine the other place i went too told me that ligaments are not important, that muscles can take there place, that is very wrong, i did 6 months of pelvic exercise to strengthen my lower back and all that region, what happen is that everything came even tighter and the pain was horrible. I am sad to tell you that the only way to fix lax over stretched ligaments is with prolotherapy, there is no other way. Good luck in your rehab. brian on "dvd" http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/topic/dvd#post-61497 Wed, 04 Jan 2012 16:33:40 +0000 brian 61497@http://www.losethebackpain.com/forum/ do you get a dvd with order. i never received one