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Steve Hefferon
Mar 20, 2008 - 9:05AM
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How pain become CHRONIC?
This is a great explanation about pain from Cynthia Piltch and Martha Menard both PhDs in this months issue of MTJ.
"Untreated pain can become worse via the
"wind-up Phenomenon"
They go on to explain that Nerve fibers transmitting the pain impulses to the brain become trained to deliver pain signals better (just as a muscle get stronger with training), with the result that the nerve becomes more effective at sending pain signals to the brain.
The intensity of the signals increases over and above what is needed to get your attention. To make matters worse, the brain becomes sensitized to the pain. So your pain feels much worse even though your injury or illness is not getting any worse.
At this point, pain may be termed chronic pain."
Break the cycle, there are a hand full of treatments that both treat the symptoms and the cause, what will work best for you? no one knows, so keep looking the solution is out there...
Steve
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paul
Mar 20, 2008 - 3:17PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Great points. The mind is very strong and after time there are neuro pathways that are "remembered" even if the injury is no longer present.
i.e. I had tremendous calf pain in 1988 and had a cyst taken out that was growing against my siatic nerve. I hate that pain which was present for 2 years and never let up...It was the greatest fear in my life. 18 years later when i tweaked my back I feared the worst and wouldn't you know that the calf pain returned......MRI's showed nothing touching a nerve. I believe my fear and my mind remembered this pathway and this apprehension led to my being tight and causing ischemia to the muscles. After some stretching, your LTBP system and some mind/body excercises for releasing anger i am 100% after 3 years.
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Steve Hefferon
Mar 20, 2008 - 3:19PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
If you do not mind can you tell us about releasing your anger...
steve
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paul
Mar 20, 2008 - 5:53PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Sure thing Steve. I am a vociferous reader and I am a fan of Dr. Sarno and Dr. Scott Brady who believe that there are a few personality types that a prone to ischemia in the postural muscles. Here they are as I remember them. #1 Perfectionist #2 People Pleaser #3 Stoic (and there are a few more)....I was a combo of #1 & #2 which meant I was always harder on myself than anyone else. this meant i swallowed alot of anger. Well anger comes out somewhere. Upon reflection I suffered before the back pain IBS, Gerd, neck pain, anxiety attacks. In a nutshell these outward body disfunctions are a way of our subconscious saying that it is easier to have these ailments than to deal with our emotions. Does this mean that the pain is in our mind? HELL NO!! It does not take much oxygen deprivation to cause distress in the postural muscles. I did the LTBP religiously.....got trigger point therapy (which every therapist said i was the tightest person they had ever seen.....I am a former power athlete).....but it was all temporary.....The 3rd piece to the puzzle for me was the mind/body connection and once I journaled and allowed my conscious to challenge my subconscious I lost the leg pain.....The next therapy session my therapist could not believe the internal and external rotation I achieved with my hip flexors. No groin tenderness, no IT band tenderness, no gluteal medius trigger points. It has been that way for months now. Have I had relapses. YES....but they last a day.....sometimes less.
If you were to ask me 6 months ago if this were possible I would have said no. I have spent 10K on massages over the last 2 years. Rolfing, chiro's, PT, etc. So never give up hope, but realize the mind/body connection may be a missing piece to the puzzle.
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Steve Hefferon
Mar 21, 2008 - 8:06AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Paul, you nailed it...
let me just define ischemia, more or less it a lack of blood flow, when no reason is given stress is most likely the culpert to name a few triggers (Anger, Fear, Frustration, its your job to identify your own stressors) stress in muscles causes them to tighten and when you have a chronically tense muscle the blood vessels will be restricted and the less blood that will flow, thus the less oxygen the muscle gets, that is called tissue hypoxia.
Ask anyone who has had a heart attack how bad it hurt till the blood started to flow again.
That is why you feel great after a massage or exercise and then an hour latter you feel like crap again.
Everyone in pain is physical stressed, that much is true, the trick it to work the mind and body together a little at a time...
As a test over the Holiday weekend, take ten minutes in the morning and 1 minute 10 times a day to stop everything and take some deep breathes,
tell your self ...
Every breath that I take is will bring more oxygen to my cells and the more oxygen my cell have the less pain i will have and the faster i will heal my self from the inside out.
That is something no one can do but you...
While I'm on a roll try one more thing increase the number of times you say...
Thank you and I'm Sorry
The thank you's are the easy ones, it the I'm Sorry that most people get stuck on, so some time you can start with the ones we love the most, like you mother or father, if you can not think of anything off the top of your head to say your sorry about, go back in time way back even as a kid, make a list if you have to and just let it flow...
Thank you listening and I'm sorry if I made you cry!
Have a great weekend, I look forward to hearing of your story's... I want every one to share their stories on this forum of how you started to say Thank you and I'm Sorry and how it made you feel.
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Melanie
Mar 22, 2008 - 9:21AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
This is very interesting....thanks, guys, for bringing this to the forum. I ordered Dr. Sarno and the other Doc's books yesterday. we'll see!
Mel
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Steven Hefferon
Mar 24, 2008 - 10:19AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
In the case of decreasing pain by increasing blood flow that is how and why Lifezyme plus works so well.
The more blood flow you have the more oxigen your muscle will get, the more neutrents your muscle will get and the more metabolic waists your body can process, not to mention that our bodies go through even more stress when our bodies are missing the enzymes...
Give the body what it needs and you can reduce the stress on the body, give the body what it needs for long enough and you have and enveroment for healing.
here is and article on how the enzymes work...
Steve
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paul
Mar 24, 2008 - 11:49AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Steve-
no disrespect but i the mind/body effect is not physiological therefore an enzyme would not. It has to do with your subconscious mind causing pain. That is the entire point. Your mind is causing the ischemia. I had been on wobenzyme which everyone swore by and it did nothing. Yet when I confronted my sub-conscious by denying its control the pain went away. Not trying to cost you sales but in my case and many others who have used knowledge therapy it is about getting away from saying it is physiological and it is psychological. I know of many people who were on percocets and other drugs who after knowledge therapy threw them out. It is this neuro-association of all the crutches of backpain that perpetuates the mind/pain syndrome. i.e. pills,pillows, movements...everything becomes associated with back pain......this is how neuro pathways are built and are hard to breakdown....
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Melanie
Mar 24, 2008 - 6:14PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
I hear ya, Paul. The mind-body connection. Could it be the missing link for me? I have definitely made improvements through LTBP and working wiht my PT...but I can't wait for my books from Dr. Sarno and Dr. Brady to arrive! Interested in adding this to my arsenal.
Mel
(27 y/o female with low back pain for 4 years)
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paul
Mar 24, 2008 - 8:04PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
It is worth a shot Mel.
I did not think so. I was adament that my muscle imbalance was going be there forever even though I had done all the excercises for a long time. Trigger pt therapy loosened me but would last 2-3 days tops.
Then an aquaintance told me he was in pain for 18 years and like me it was wearing him down. He saw the traits in me. It is like your speedometer is redlining all the time. On reflection I could never sit still, I always had my fists clinched. My 1st and last thoughts and most of the day all i could concentrate on was my pain. It is like a rebirth and i look forward to each day. Am back to all activities.
If anybody told me 6 months ago i would be pain free I would have laughed. I have a high tolerance level but it had taken its toll and I would have been pleased to be a 5 on the pain scale instead of the daily 7-8. Now I am a 0-2.....an occasional (once a month) 4-5.
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Steve Hefferon
Mar 25, 2008 - 9:02AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
The best thing that has come out of this post is that the idea the different approaches work for different people, is only half true, everyone needs a bit of many different approaches put into a coordinated and and orchestrated plan for both the short term and the long term.
and this is why so many people try so many different thing and then they day "Oh I tired that and it didn't work" No, it helped but there are missing links in you plan.
for example trigger point therapy is not something you do for a couple of days that and than that it, it is a treatment that need to be done daily and it may take months of consistent application as you are working on improving your diet, muscle imbalances, releasing anger, spinal decompression, or mind body techniques...
100% chance that someone with anger issue has trigger points...
100% change that someone with back pain has trigger points...
and the bugger with TP are that they can not be stretched away or exercised away, they need to be mechanically broken down...
Can Mind Body techniques release TPs? Yep,to some degree...but best if you read the article blow
Best article ever written on Trigger Point Therapy
"Trigger Point Therapy"
Best Trigger Point device ever made:
"Trigger Point Self Treatment"
We believe in the mind body connection and pain relief 1000% The mind has unlimited possibilities as to what it can do for your body and support a product that has 9 different mind body techniques, it educates you on how to identify your specific issues and then teaches you which of the 9 techniques or a combination of techniques will work best for you not just for pain but for overall improved health...
but like anything each technique has it limitation it is rare that one thing can accomplish all for everyone. That just does not happen so finding the right combination of approaches is going to make a huge difference in you life unfortunately there is not crystal ball telling you what is the best approach for you and that mean educating your self and experimenting but you have to have a plan when you do it.
Let me just give an example of the enzymes, the enzymes can not control the mind body connection, they can not make you stronger or bring you body back to balance, they can not fix a herniated disc or cure sciatica but they CAN help the body deal with Oxidative Stressors that causes systemic inflammation the root cause for virtual all degeneratative diseases and the pain you are feeling, everyone that has pain has inflammation to some degree, we are all exposed to Oxidative stressors in our everyday life from the sugars eat to the soaps use.
The question is how fast can your body deal with the Oxidative stress, for the people that have fibromyalgia not fast enough for the people with degenerative diseases not fast enough.
For those of you in pain not fast enough but what to do Steven Chandler has a great line in his book
"The Story of you"
"The best way to over come a challenge is to overwhelm it"...
Most likely your healthy care provider, the internet, this site and this forum are overwhelming you but if you stop and think and organize a plan you can do it, Paul did it, so can you..
P.S. Paul, My bet is, since you have eliminated the mind body limitation if you tried the enzymes again you would feel even better...
I can even offer everyone a free trial:
https://losethebackpain.com/trylifezyme.html
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paul
Mar 25, 2008 - 1:59PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Very Well Said Steve. I am going to finsih the bottle of Wobenzyme and then may give your product a shot. I really am happy to have "muscle soreness" from working out. I missed it.
I also do not want to leave out that I still do my stretches and now concentrate on my core 3x per week (TA and multifidus especially)...I also do alot of step ups and bodyweight squats.
At least once a week I spend a half hour on my foam roller to break up some tp's. I was going to buy the fenix system before you even put it on here, but I had already found my relief prior.
When all the mechanical pieces are in place sometimes the last thing that holds you back is the mind. In fact it may be the mind that is your worse enemy, especially after being in pain so long. A recent study was shown that chronic pain sufferers minds are active even at rest/sleep. I think this is part of what i said it is like bodies are redlining all the time.
I know I am just a layman, but i devour books. I have read at least 20 back books by McGill, Sarno, Brady, Brownstein and many more. I have done the LTBP (with good results), the McKenzie excercises, CHEK praticitioner excercise (also great). I have had PT, Rolfing, Trigger Point Therapy, NMT, Chiropractic.
I have completed a 30 day journal of my feelings in which i say my back is normal and this is my subconscious). Before this I had my usual 2-3 days of feeling ok after TP therapy but only to go back again. This set me free though.
So in summation the combination that worked for me was:
1) LTBP
2) CHEK practioner (much overlap with LTBP)
3) Neuro Muscular Therapy (trigger points)
4) Knowledge Therapy
Many people get better on their own, but for us "trick" cases I would guess it is a combination. It is up to us to find out which combination unlocks our pain. I am here to say it is not hopeless, because I felt hopeless less than a year ago. Wondering if I could ever work again and so on.
I wish everyone the very best and thank Steve for this valuable forum.
Cheers
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Steve Hefferon
Mar 25, 2008 - 3:17PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Dude do you want to write for us?
True to life stories Articles about your experience...
I just read a story about Wallace D. Wattles, through his writing, believing every word that he wrote, he became the person he wrote about.
His daughter Florence notes that in those last years, "he wrote almost constantly. It was then that he formed his mental picture. He saw himself as a successful writer, a personality of power, an advancing man, and he began to work toward the realization of this vision. He lived every page ... His life was truly the powerful life."
Bob Proctor, the seasoned citizen wrote a GREAT 10 page article on purpose, vision and goals
If you google these terms you can get the book, could be the 7 one down...
"bob proctor purpose vision goals pdf"
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JEFF C
Mar 25, 2008 - 8:36PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Steve whats your thoughts on NO2 (Nitrous Oxide Producing supplements) which are big in bodybuilding right now..........the reason I mention this is in 2007 I did 2 different 3 week cycles of a combination of natural supplements.....each of those cycles included a high dose of a NO2 producing supplement........well I have read on the whole mind/body connection and how the oxygen/blood depravation theory holds with it ......So I looked back at my info I kept of my pain (days I was in pain, where the pain was etc etc)and wouldnt you know it those 2 three week periods I was on those cycles I had very little pain...it was almost as it disapearred.......when I went off the cycle the pain was back........so this week I picked up an NO2 product and guess what...... and within a matter of an hour of the first dose I noticed much less pain.....Ive been taking it for 3 days and there has been a remarkable decrease in pain........So what do you think....these NO2 products are supposed to increase oxygen within the blood.......would make sense to me that this can help some people ......
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paul
Mar 25, 2008 - 10:12PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Funny you mention Wallace Wattles. I have his 2 cd set in my car. LOL.....He was before his time.
I am also a fan of Mr. Proctor as well.
I am a huge fan of self-improvement and creating your own destiny....
Psycho-cybernetics as well. all starts from belief within and working from the end result backwards
Great discussion
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paul
Mar 26, 2008 - 12:00AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Steve-
I downloaded the PDF and read the article. i have seen it before. i have actually been on a 1.5 year vision quest determining what inspires me. I was fortunate enough to have sold a company in 2001. Then excelled in the Pharma sales biz but was miserable. So I packed up and moved to Florida with my back pain and delved into spiritual reading and healing. I am not ready to explore my calling now that I have put my pain behind me. I have learned alot and continue to. Proctor is great as are many. Dan Kennedy, Vitale, Maltz, Robbins, Canfield, All of Wayne Dyer, All of Chopra, Robert Collier, Allen, Catherine Ponder and many many more. I have taken all the authors over the last 2 years and compiled the commonalities that all have.
It is funny that all these things ultimately helped me heal myself. However, I have to say it is clear now, but while in pain it is hard to see the forest through the trees.
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Steve Hefferon
Mar 26, 2008 - 11:53AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
No Question Nitrous Oxide and pain are linked, its also a muscle relaxant AKA VIAGeRA...
If you did not know that is what VIAGeRA works
Dont know how well supplements work sorry...
What brand do you use?
Steve
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JEFF C
Mar 27, 2008 - 1:41PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
I use MRI ...NO2 Platinum ...and also for preworkout I use Gaspari Superpump 250 which is an awesome preworkout formula which besides NO2 boosting supps it also has Creatine, Ginko and some other Supps in it....Actually The Gaspari product was the one I first started noticing a big pain decrease within minutes after taking it
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Steve Hefferon
Mar 27, 2008 - 1:48PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
I hate to destroy this post but I have to ask, NO2 is targeted in ED drugs...
At rest the bipper is actually contracted and restricts blood flow into it, ED drugs boost NO2, relaxing the muscle and blood flows...
Do you have any side effects like spontaneous and uncontrolled erections?
Sounds bad but I would hate to have anyone go out and start taking NO2 and become walking hard-ons...
Steve
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Steve Hefferon
Mar 27, 2008 - 5:21PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
As long as we are sharing our resources about self improvement I though I would share my story about how I got through 6 year period of continuous roller costarring of emotions...
Not that it matter a whole lot but as you read this remember that I'm an only child, with a new baby, new job, both parents being ill required me manage a child care facility to the north, a business in the middle and a nursing home to the south...
Well it all started when I got married...
In 2000 I got married, I bought a house, the stock market takes a dump, I went from having a million dollar portfolio, to worthless paper… like most
In 2000 – 2002, we spent what little I had left on fertility treatments that never happen…
Late 2002 after 2 years of hell, we adopt a 10 day old baby girl…
Late 2003 I quite my job to help Jesse start the Health Back Institute, it was not easy and has not been but I love it and quite proud of it.
Early 2004, my Dad gets diagnosed with stage 4 Gastric Cancer, has an operation to remove his Stomach, Gallbladder, Spleen, and part of his Pancreas. During the operation he has a heart attack, after weeks in intensive care he emerges to only develop an abdominal abscess, followed by blood infections, yeast infections and worst of all left with the inability to eat.
7 months in the hospital and so many near death experiences it almost killed me.
But he survived and today he is thriving this Jan will be 5 years…
Early 2006 My mother gets diagnosed with Large B-Cell Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma, and the process started over again…One full year of Chemo treatments with all the nasty side effects and today she is doing great.
Grant it I left out most of the details but you get the point it was not easy...
Before 2000 I was single, a millionaire and never once knew what stress was...
Do I wish those 6 years never happened, NO, would I want to go through them again, NO but some were in there I forget when exactly I started to look for help.
When you read about me telling people not to worry or believe that anything is possible, I'm not just saying that I lived it and continue to live it...
but do not get me wrong, during those years I worried like so bad that I almost lost my mind, I had so much on my plate that I did not know how to process all of it and my mind just could not stop thinking negative thouoghts...
I went looking for help but did not even know what I was looking for, other then relief from endless worry...
I ended up finding Hale Dwoskin, much like the hell you are going through with your back pain I went through in those years of mental hell.
I learned that I did not need to have all of the answers, in fact the more I was willing not try and figure things out the easer the answers came to me, what I left out of the story was a number of miraculous events that would have meant death for my father, me never me knowing my Daughter and the list goes on I will write about it some day soon...
My point is that when we struggle and worry and fill our minds with catastrophic thoughts we lose the innate ability to heal our self, lift our selfs and achieve what we want... I don't care if its in Health, wealth, relationships or anything personal, clear the mind and the answer will come, the challenge is how do you do it?
It takes a process and much like Paul learned from Dr Sarno I learned from Hale...
I do not want to tell you what to do or try to convince you that you need to do what I did, that is not my intent, I like telling stories and if you relate I could just end up helping you when you need it the most…
One thing I know for sure is that you can not heal alone, we all need some one and I spend 10 hours a day in front of this computer hoping to touch as many people as I can…
If you go to our blog you will find a special link that Hale has given me for you to listen to his message, it free you do not need to sign up for anything, its just him telling you what he told me of how ease it is to let go and release the reasons why we hold on to fear, worry, frustration and the like…
http://backpaintreatmentsreviewed.com/categories/Sedona%20Method.aspx
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JEFF C
Mar 27, 2008 - 7:06PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Steve Ive tried Viagra in the past....its nothing like the NO2 products.....With Viagra there was serious flushing of the face, lots of pressure in your head and a nice hangover headache for the next 6-24 hours after.....With the NO2 there was none of that.......only noticable thing was a spike in endurance and energy....and the decrease in pain....at least for me....now for me I have also been applying the mind/body connection principles and have been doing 3 SIJD self correction exercises 4x a day for the past 2 weeks......so I think between the NO2, Mind/Body Principles and the SIJD self corrections they all have had a hand in helping....If I had to pick the one that has played the biggest part Id definitly say the SIJD self corrections.........good luck to all
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paul
Mar 27, 2008 - 8:47PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Please explain what SJID means. Thanks
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Dan Monahan
Mar 28, 2008 - 6:11AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
SIJD = Sacroiliac Joint Dysfunction
Take a look at the article below:
http://www.losethebackpain.com/conditions/sacroiliacjointdysfunction.html
Or do a Google search on SIJD or Sacroiliac Joint Dysfunctions...It's very interesting stuff.
Thanks
Dan :)
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David Schechter MD
Apr 1, 2008 - 8:01PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Hi,
I'm responding to Paul and just giving him my own support on the mind body issue. Dr. Sarno cured by knee pain 25 years ago when I was a medical student suffering from unexplained persistent pain. I did research with him and have brought his philosophy to the West Coast. I've added some additional methodology and perspectives and have worked with thousands of pain sufferers over the years with great success. Steve and I are communicating on this important area. Best to you Paul and good luck to everyone with pain... that you find your path to healing.
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paul
Apr 2, 2008 - 12:11AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Thank you for the kind words doctor. I did Dr. Schubiners 4 week journaling course and it was unbelievable what is uncovered.
I recognize your name from some of my TMS readings. It is hard to grasp but it makes so much sense. Belief is the key.
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Melanie
Apr 6, 2008 - 6:51PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Paul-
Just wanted you to know that I have been reading Dr Sarno and Dr Brady's books simultaneously and have received some great relief!! I think this makes sense for me, along with some other methods such as PT which is going to be finished in three weeks as my PT says he is pleased with my improvements over the past 5 months and SO AM I!! I think the mind-body connection is SO critical to many of our problems that we discuss on this forum. THANK YOU for bringing it to my attention!!
Melanie
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paul
Apr 6, 2008 - 7:47PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Melanie-
That is awesome!!! Yesterday was a huge milestone for me. I drove 100 golf balls with no pain. 1st time in 4 years. Many were 250+ yards. Played 9 holes. The only thing sore is my hands...
Google a Dr. Schubiner Mind Body Program.....best one out there.
I am very happy for you. Many people are stuck in the realm of structural and sometimes this is the missing piece....especially for those of us who are chronic and we hurt all the time.
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Melanie
Apr 9, 2008 - 8:48PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Paul- Question....
When you instituted the mind-body techniques for yourself, it sounds like you didn't completely follow Dr. Sarno and Brady's prescription which included stopping the use of any "pain crutches" such as physical therapy, exericses/stretching. Am I reading your posts wrong, or can you elaborate a little more?
I agree with everything they are saying in their books, but I have also seen some improvement in my pain/conditions through the last fve months of physical therapy and targeted water exercises, stretching, etc. I am a little bit afraid to stop doing these things, but was curious about your opinion and personal experience. My pain level is currently at about a 3 daily, which ahs gone down from about a 5 or 6 when I started PT last November. I would just like it to be down to a 1 or ZERO!!
Any thoughts?
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Melanie
Apr 9, 2008 - 8:49PM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
ALSO....addendum would be that I started utilizing the LTBP program alongside the PT, also taking Lifezyme daily, etc. This has all been since November as well.
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paul
Apr 10, 2008 - 12:38AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Melanie-
Once I did the Sarno, Brady and now Schubiner I dropped all therapy, massage etc.
I had done the other steps with results...but never lasting.
I feel I may have been injured but the chronic pain was perpetuated by the mind/body.
That is why I give all 3 phases credit. It was not until i was 3 years into my chronic pain that a friend saw "Sarno traits" in my personality and recommended him.
Melanie,
I see after reading Sarno/Brady you would be confused. Since I have been pain free I have only been to 1 treatment with my Neuro Muscular Therapist and he could not believe how supple and loose my muscles were and sans trigger points. Mind you I had seen hime every 7 days for 18 months so he knew my body in and out. Also my hip rotation was normally 22 degrees and after I started Schubiner was 45 degrees.
I was normally so tight my muscles were painful to touch...even gently.
Mel, my e-mail is Pmazzdog@aol.com if you have any more questions. I would be happy to help any way i can
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paul
Apr 10, 2008 - 4:42AM
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Re: How pain become CHRONIC?
Melanie-
I still excercise and use my TVA excercises to tighten my core. Not to improve my back. I will occasionally do stretching also. I do not put much thought into it because I know how tight I was after a ton of stretching. The key is to get the blood flowing and not have ischemia. It was my subconscious that was preventing this.
I went from a 8/9 pain level for my 1st year to a 6/7 with an occasional 2 or 3 day run of 3 or 4.....
then after i started getting NMT it was 6/7 with a 4 or 5 day run of between 1 and 4....wide variances....
now it is about 0 to 2 for 28 days and 2 days of 3 or 4.....
Playing golf now...back lifting weights......60 minutes per day on elliptical.....
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