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Brandon
Nov 20, 2008 - 10:24AM
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SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi guys,
Well, i'm trying to sort through and find the right supplements to help the body heal... had fall about 10 month ago and back problems. Have started the ltbp yesterday and have HIGH hopes... ordered the Healing PAD and have high hopes... and have been using heal and soothe for about 6 weeks... can't really notice much, but still have HIGH HOPES.
Now for the problem.... what kind of other supplements do i want to take. I'm looking for a glucosamine... but do i want HCL, or a Sulfate, what about MSM and Condroitin? Have heard that Condroitin may be related to some cancers? Liquid or Pill? Brand? Same with multivitamin? Also have been doing alot of reading on magnesium... looks like it would be a good supplement to start, what are your thoughts? Went to the health food store yesterday (Clarks) and there are millions or bottles... felt completely lost within about 2 minutes. Any advice you guys have is much appreciated.
Also when I do start the supplements, should I take them at the same time I do my heal and soothe? or should I still take the heal and soothe on an empty stomach?
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Brandon
Nov 20, 2008 - 10:27AM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
just to add, I'm hoping the glucosamine will help a crunching noise in my lower back when I arch it... does anyone else have this problem?
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 20, 2008 - 1:18PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Brandon
I take caps
Take MSM
Condroitin - marine
Glucosamine - get HCL
I think you should take heal and soothe on an empty stomach
Glucosamine doesn't do anything for the crunching noise in my lower back
Paul
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Brandon
Nov 20, 2008 - 4:19PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hey paul... thanks for the info...
Can you tell me anything about that crunching in your lower back? When does it do it for you? And what do you think it is? My doc said that it might be the spinous processes rubbing togeter on a couple of vertebrae... does that sound reasonable? I don't think they should touch at all should they?
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 20, 2008 - 6:59PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Brandon
As long as the doc doesn't say it's in your head, this one definitely isn't in my head anyway, I know friction and grinding when I hear it in my back
What concerns me a little is the body must respond to friction
Al told me mine was the sacrum on the ilium rubbing
I also get crunching in the thoracic area with me as well
Hard to explain when I can hear it, by wriggling the hips around, if I lift one side of my hip up or in the main with a humping type motion
Bottom line is it shouldn't be doing it, I never use to hear it
Have you put marker pen dots on your spinous processes
I have some scoliosis
Check for a rib hump
Paul
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Brandon
Nov 20, 2008 - 8:36PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
I think it's absolutely irritating though don't you? it doesn't particularly hurt... I just hate when i feel/hear it grind. Mine is about two or three inches up from my sacrum...definately in the lumbar region. Do you think it could possibly be scar tissue? Or something that may heal itself? It just seems with all these doctors they can never say for sure... its always "well could be this" or "that"...
Did have an Mri, maybe I'll have him take a closer look at that region next time I go in.
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fred wade
Nov 20, 2008 - 9:24PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Its the facet joints that make that noise. Mine do it all the time.
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Brandon
Nov 20, 2008 - 10:44PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi fred... thanks for the input.
Now for the million dollar question... does it hurt anything? What exactly is grinding? And how did you find out its the facet joints, did your doc tell you?
Any more info you can give me would be really appreciated.
And does that noise mean that there is any extra stress put on the joints? And can we stop it!!!!? Its so annoying.
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 21, 2008 - 1:24PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Brandon
I would love to know all the answers to them questions as well
It is as irritating as hell but it's not painful at all, it's surprising really with how it sounds
I sometimes find myself wriggling my hips just to see if it's still there and yeah I agree I hate to hear it hear it and feel grind, but I still have check it
It sounds like bone on bone to me, definitely
I have some facet hypertrophy
I think if I got my hips level, the small amount of scoliosis I have straighten out, it might stop it
It sounds like the noise of a misalignment
It's still a symptom of muscles out of imbalance
Do you have any scoliosis bud
Paul
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Brandon
Nov 22, 2008 - 1:39AM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
I know what you mean... I find myself bending and arching my back to make the noise... just hoping it won't make the noise (which sometimes it doesn't... not often enough though). I started ltbp this week, haven't really noticed much... know i have a front tipped pelvis, and need to send photos in to Steve H. to help me figure out if i have a high right hip. I'm thinking i do because my inner thigh muscle (can't come up with the name at the moment) is tight as hell. Doesn't really bother me, but when I try to stretch in the butterfly it is like a rock!!!
I think my last phys therapist told me I have a little scoliosos but its up around my shoulder blades... don't think that should have much to do with my lower back crunch, but who knows... it is all connected( as i'm starting to learn MORE AND MORE)!!!
I'm really hoping the ltbp system can get me headed in the right direction. I'm doing my best to keep motivated on it and just realized that I can do about half my exercise/stretches while i'm in the shower in the morning... works pretty well especially after the muscles warm up.
Thanks Paul... hope we can both get rid of that CRUNCH!!!
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 23, 2008 - 6:43PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Brandon
I've had restriction in my right inner thigh, adductor area for years, since I was 18 or so, so it's 5 years now, I never did anything about it at the time because it wasn't causing me a problem, little did I know it was a problem though and would unleash it's ugly head
I can sometimes snap / pop it out and have greater ROM there and than, but I think this bad in the long run
Gentle stretches and TP work is the way
Paul
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Brandon
Nov 25, 2008 - 10:18AM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hey Paul,
Forgot to ask you... you use the ltbp system right? Has it decreased your low back crunch at all?
And do you think there is any way that you tight right inner thigh could be causing part or all of it? I dont know much about anatomy and what is connected to what, but maybe you do.
Also if you do, what books would you recommend for learing muscle and bone anatomy?
Thanks,
Brandon
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Jesse Cannone
Nov 25, 2008 - 9:35PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Experiment with a higher dosage of Heal-n-Soothe... we've found that some people take 3 capsules while others take 15 or more in a day.
Don't be too concerned with the crunching sound unless it's accompanied by pain or discomfort.
In addition to heal-n-soothe you may want to try fish oil and glucosamine/MSM... but even before you try those, give yourself some more time to work on the imbalances with the LTBP (lose the back pain) system, the Healing Pad (far infrared heat) and if you haven't already, you should read more about trigger points... we have several articles and videos about them on the website.
Jesse
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brandon
Nov 25, 2008 - 9:46PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Thanks for the reply Jesse,
I have really been working hard on strengthening my abs and glutes... They're sore, so I guess that means i'm making progress. Also started on the glucosamine msm.. etc.
I've been taking 4 heal n soothe morning and night, thought that was quite alot but maybe I'll try to do 6 tonight.
As far as the crunch, no its not especially painful... just unnerving i guess is a good word... doesn't sound good.
Just wondering if you could give me an idea or what makes the sound? I'm with paul that it kind of sounds like bone... but I guess it could be cartilege or even a tendon on a bone.. I don't know and would welcome any of your suggestions.
Thanks for your input and all the products you offer.
Brandon
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karl
Nov 26, 2008 - 3:59PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Fish oil is very good as a natural anti inflam as well as having a whole host of other health benefits.
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 26, 2008 - 6:52PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Brandon
LTBP was a good starting point, I still do some of excerisers
Nothing on the face of this planet has helped with the crunch, it didn't even start crunching until around 6 months after I first got pain, it's somthing else which just came alone for the ride later
For me it's bone, the facet joints like Fred said, or the SI joint
I think if we got our pelvis and spines back to the blue print it might stop it
Best muscle book is the one Dave H told me about and that's
Basic Clinical Massage Therapy
Comes with DVD as well, which is good
It really is annoying though, it would really help my mind rest more if it stopped it
Paul
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 26, 2008 - 7:02PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Brandon
Without a dout my right inner thigh - adductors, pectineus and gracilis is a major problem
Paul
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dave hutchieson
Nov 27, 2008 - 12:51PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Paul
Lay on your back legs straight.
Now, try to put the soles of your feet together, with your knees moving out towards the sides.
Let gravity allow your legs to drop down.
One knee will drop more than the other.
Have someone photograph this.
Now you need to call nuero-muscular therapists, massage therapists etc and tell them what you have done.
Then ask them if they can they increase your range of motion.
Tell them you will take photos before and after [ good ones will also use measuring methods ].
This should weed out the ones who cannot produce visible results.
One group of attachment points is in the groin area.
It's not very pleasant, but you can get good results.
Whenever you go to see a therapist, you MUST say:
"What visible or measureable results should I expect today".
Good ones will have no problem with that.
Mediocre or useless ones will say "Well... you know.... I'LL know when you're better ......ummmmm... we don't usually do that sort of thing .....I've treated over a thous.."
CLUNK
Phone down
Goodbye
The guy who treats me ALWAYS tests me before and after.
A good therapist will have no problems with that.
He should test for increased range of motion and/or reduction in pain.
Both are good.
Even if you don't get an immediate reduction in pain, increased range of motion is always a good thing.
Dave Hutchieson
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 27, 2008 - 6:39PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Dave
One knee does drop more than the other, it's the left one, that's because the right is still a little jammed
I've been working like a nutter to increase range of motion with the right adductors, pectineus and gracilis muscles with gentle stretches and TP ball work
It's been a while since I had a massage therapists do the area, been saving
He wouldn't do it at first, he said you can't really do it, I said you've got to though bud it's the only way, I don't think he did it hard enough
When see different therapist, I'll ask him to test my ROM before and after, photo's ect
It's certainly getting there though, many months ago it was totally jammed, come to think of it, it was right bad actually, I've come a long way, still doesn't have same ROM of the left though, still
Cheers
Paul
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brandon
Nov 28, 2008 - 1:05AM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hey Paul, got another question for you. Do you have any problems with your hip joint due to the tight inner thigh? I get a cluck/pop out of mine from time to time. I can reproduce it if I lay my back and kind of do a bicycle motion with that leg...keeping the shin parallel to the ground... it will pop/clunk when I lower it back down to the ground. Hope you can picture what I mean.
let me know.
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 28, 2008 - 3:14PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Brandon
I know exactly what you mean mate, the exact same thing happens to me
Lay on my back, raise the right leg and then when lowering the leg I get a clunk or poping noise pretty much everytime I lower my right leg, the best way to describe it was like you said a clucking noise
The noise is coming from the pectineus area I think, it's something that bolting in and out of place when lowering the leg
Quite a hard bolting, clucking noise as well, I might add
Never happens on the left leg
I don't know anyone else who has this a part from you and me
Every nuero muscular therapist and physo I have seen didn't think anything of it
Something has gone wrong from a biomechanical view, it simply should not do that, it doesn't feel right, it doesn't sound right, the left leg never does it, hell it's not right
The right side of my pelvis is too far forward and down
The best thing to do is put elasticity in the right ( with me away ) IP muscle, pectineus, adductors and both soleus - bottom of calves
I didn't have much elasticity my soleus in the past and since knowing the importance of this, I can tell it feels better when moving around ect
The more I do the above the better my situation becomes
Paul
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brandon
Nov 28, 2008 - 7:07PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hey there Paul...
I think your diagnosis is pretty dead on. I'm the same as you... have it in the right but not the left. And its not painful at all!!! Hell it should be the way it feels and sounds. The doc I'm seeing said it could be a torn labrum on the hip joint but he didn't think so. Also all the research i've done on torn labrums doesnt really match what i feel... its not like it pops out if I'm moving around walking running etc. I think when we lay on our backs it just puts whatever is already on a lot of stress and pressure from being tight under more since its supporting the whole leg and when that stress is relieved when it touches down something snaps back into place.
Well hell, I'm sorry you got the same thing goin on...but kind of glad i'm not the only one. Can't say i had it before my injury about a year ago... never really did leg lifts or anything like that until the phys therapists told me to.
So you think if we can loosen up that inner thigh, you think we can correct it? I'm hoping so. I've been trying to stretch it... I use that infrared heating pad on the area for about 15 min before and sometimes even while i'm stretching... it does go alot further this way than if I just try to stretch it without heat. I was looking at the high hip stretch in the ltbp... and his leg goes almost to the ground in that butterfly stretch... mine is nowhere close. If you've got any tips on stretching it would really appreciate them.
Thanks.
Brandon
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Jeff
Nov 29, 2008 - 1:56PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Just wondering if you guys ever had any xrays or MRI's done to check your Hips.....I know for me on the Groin Butterfly stretch my ROM is not that good....but I do have mild Arthrits in both hips along with small labral tears...also a Torn Adductor Tendon / Rectus Ab Muscle....all picked up by an MRI......I have a Hip Snap that can be felt but not heard going on over the trochanter ...its either the Psoas Tendon or IT Band....but its not causing pain....no snapping inside the actual Hip Joint....If you do have snapping Inside the joint Id definitly get an MRI....or better yet an MR Arthogram...which Im getting in a few weeks ( Contrast Injection into the Hip Joint ) then the MRI to really show whats going on inside that joint and to see if those tears are an issue....If not Ill end up getting surgery to repair the tendon/muscle tears
I know a few guys that had bad labral tears and they would get snapping within the hip joint and a lot of catching or where you get that sudden sharp pain in the hip that catches/stops you in your tracks
By the way all my problems started from a hard collision while I was fielding a ball in the Outfield...I got hit from the side as I was bent over fielding a ball....I got up, dusted myself off and was fine...but 2 weeks later felt the sharp tearing feeling in the low ab/pelvic area.....then over the years the pain slowly spread ....lots of dysfunctional stuff and muscle imbalances happened....exercises and stretches worked only to a certain point...Keeping my fingers crossed on my upcoming MRA Test
Good Luck to the Both of you !!
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 29, 2008 - 6:21PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Brandon
Yeah putting elasticity and gently stretching out the IP muscle, pectineus, adductors is the way
Mine has come a long way in the butterfly stretch, it was completely jammed
An epsom salt bath for me helps a little before starting
I haven't looked into torn labrums much, Jeff sent me some stuff on athletic pubalgia, I'm still reading about that, I don't like the sound of it though
Carry on with LTPB stretching, I do some of their stuff
Look into
Egoscue books
The wartons back book - Active Isolated Stretching
Trigger point balls
Paul
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Weight Training Paul
Nov 29, 2008 - 6:22PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
Hi Jeff
Yes I've had an MRI, nobody said everything about labral tears or torn adductor tendon / rectus abbs, so think I'm probably ok there
Keep us updated on the MRA test mate
Paul
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Jeff
Nov 29, 2008 - 7:24PM
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Re: SUPPLEMENTS... Is anyone else confused?
I dont think all MRI's are created Equal....I had 2 MRI's prior to this one over the years and they showed nothing but some Arthritis.....This past one was set up for an Athletic Pubalgia Protocol using 4 imaging planes blah blah blah...not sure of what that means but Im guessing these MRI's can be set up to be more sensitive to certain areas...maybe Jesse or Steve know more on that Subject..... all I know is they are **** expensive.......Ive got the MRA at UConn on 12/12 then see the Hip Specialist (Dr Kelly) in NYC on 12/17.....I should have a good Idea where my path will lead after that...Great place to Vent here...thanks